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Fond Greetings to all. I look forward to spending a great working week with you.
Here’s all the videos we have available on-line now, so we have a video record to key our discussions with. You can ask specific questions with Video – Time Start/End notations so everyone can get on the same page.
Of course, I’m pleased to address most any subject so we have a bit of a free-for-all, catch-as-catch-can sort of event planned for the week.
{Hope you enjoyed the Inner Circle KunTao Silat Video Player that played here this week ~ this is always available to all the Inner Circle Subscribers who must be GCC/DLP members at: GCC/DLP Inner Circle Subscription}
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I have a question for the Inner Circle Subscribers.
Why are you not taking advantage of the resources available to you on http://www.kuntaosilat.guru? If I would have had that sort of information available to me when I first started studying these arts, or any martial art, I would have taken advantage of it in a heart-beat.
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For me, it’s a lack of time, really. I can only take small bites at a time,and most of that is solo work where I am trying to get back into the swing after life beat me up but good over the last few years.
Additionally, I connect through my phone, and I only have so much high speed data. Then it slows down to a crawl. I’d rather have DVDs.
I am also fortunate that I have Joe’s seniors around my area. I am trying to work my life so I have more time to work with them (Jeff Fargo in particular as he is closest to me)
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Well, that is a great explanation.
I’ve been bridled by diminutive bandwidth most of my on-line life, so I feel your pain. But it is good that the DVDs are there, both as a permanent record and as a reference tool.
I’ve noticed that we are converting the old DVDs into menu-driven disks, so it will be much easier in the future to find clips rather than having to note timeline read-outs.
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There has been a lot of email queries about the Stances.
Here they are:
Malabar
1. Sleeping Horse – Windmills
2. Entering Stance – Windmills & Turning Three Gates
3. Extended Stance – Centering & Turning Cover
4. Deep Horse Stance – Tiger
5. Eagle Stance – Cobra Kicks
6. Dragon Walking
7. Dragon Tail Sweeps
8. Tiger Walking
9. Walking Punches
10. Leaping Punches
11. Turning Leopard
12. Pretzel Position
13. Monkey drillsAmerican
1. Greeting
2. Sleeping Horse – Fire Palms
a. Collapsing Spine Stretch
b. Knees & Elbows Spine Stretch
c. Waist turning elbows
2. Turning Entering Stance – Windmills
3. Extended Stance – Index & Diving for Needles
4. Deep Horse Stance – Index, Cover & Center
5. Dragon Walking
6. Walk & Turn
7. Wave walking
8. Circle Walking -
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Well, here is the problem we have with Willem’s lineage. Since the man cannot force himself to tell the truth, even when it would be to his advantage, it is quite impossible to substantiate virtually anything I have not seen with my own eyes. And I have seen no evidence to support an Ark Wong connection.
Take as an example Willem’s Book. In it he details 12 years of training with Tan Tong Liong, Buk Chin and Willem Chin in Po Style kuntao. Then he describes being thrown in a concentration camp at six years of age and then going with his family to Thailand when he was ten and studying boxing with Mr. Hamilton. Do the math. :-)>
I have documented much of what Willem says in video, so it is a simple matter of basic investigation to confirm my assertion that very little that he says can be relied upon to be factual.
Sorry to have to tell the truth, but my days of standing behind Willem’s lies are well over.
Thanks for the question!
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Hello and Good Morning!
I was wondering if the curriculum for AKTS will ever be documented in book form with pictures and/or illustrations, including the various methods of stance training and associated supplemental exercises?
I understand this is an art based on principles and not necessarily techniques, so this could be another tool to use for training, especially when watching a video would not be possible.-
Yes Joseph, that is in the works right now.
Sigung Joe Judt is riding point on that project and he may have some pieces and parts available for the GCC/DLP People. We will see what he has to say about that.
You can use the standard J**@kuntaosilat.com email if you want to converse with him in person. Although I think this is a question others may have, so it is entirely apropos to answer in this venue.
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Do you have a DVD series (or plan one) that focuses strictly on application? Sort of like a database of applications, organized by the concepts they represent and types of entries they use?
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Yes, I see one in draft mode on the graphics computer. I will endeavour to compleat that project this week.
Meanwhile, you can watch Combat Applications on http://www.kuntaosilat.guru as you care to and you can also order the download version of about ten applications at: https://www.kuntaosilat.com/product/kuntao-silat-combat-application/ Naturally, you won’t be able to see that link if you are not a GCC member. Applications are not available to the public except now, while we have the Inner Circle Player live at the top of the page.
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Pak Steve,
Thanks for the response. There was a discussion I had with some people who seemed to poo-poo the idea of online training. I recognize that this is a resource that will require practice with a partner, and made the case that there are many online college courses, continuing education courses via computer, etc. You can actually get a Nursing degree online, but of course with the requisite skills assessment and face to face evaluation. I understand to truly become proficient, one must try and attend workshops or seminars to supplement their training.
One noted person tried to say that online training doesn’t have any value and that they don’t believe in it. That “Serious martial artists are not looking for online training; they are looking for a quality build system…”
Steve, how do you respond to this criticism?-
Howdy Joseph,
Well, this has been the “de Thouars” mime since people started signing up for the Distance Learning Course rather than studying with them as I originally intended the DLP to do. I believed that competent martial artists could grasp the gross mechanics from video and be much better prepared to learn from the Brothers; in light of their difficulty with the English language. However, the inherent chaos of dealing with the de Thouars Brothers made a lot of people opt for video study instead. That is when it awfully suddenly became impossible to learn from video.There is an element of truth in what the naysayers are re-regurgitating however. Video is a great addition to hands-on training because SO much of KunTao Silat is a matter of personal practice ~ just to be prepared to practice applications. This is much better accomplished in privacy than in a class environment ~ especially in light of the fact that video provides a perspective not available in practice AND it facilitates slow motion, rewind, pause and repetition as you see fit. This is Gold! Even if you have a teacher.
Now, let me provide some evidence to support my opinion:
Jon Pyndus: https://vimeo.com/groups/ktstestinggroup/videos/127026692
Wayne Gauvin: https://vimeo.com/groups/ktstestinggroup/videos/127026692
Danny Joines: https://vimeo.com/groups/ktstestinggroup/videos/128637989
Just in the current KunTao Silat Testing Group on Vimeo right now. These are ALL people who have learned only from video.But let me take it a bit farther. Let’s take me for example. I had about four years of daily training with Willem. But I grew up, got a REAL job, got married and became seriously crippled in the fight to introduce the Kun Lun Pai in Pak Vic’s backyard in California.
Rather than cease training, in addition to my constant training I began to video all the seminars I set up for Willem IN A LOW HORSESTANCE in order to rehabilitate my leg. The de Thouars Brothers asked me to market videos to create a seminar market for them, so I then had to start learning how to edit. This was a HUGE accelerant to my martial education because of the repetition I was forced to endure. I saw the slow motion, rewind and freeze frame so much that my sub-conscious mind played constant videos with me as the actor. So, bottom-line videos were much more valuable to my personal development than all the time I ever spent with Willem.
But that’s not all. Because of the continuing battle I’m engaged in against the Lucifarian pedophiles infesting our ostensible government at the highest levels, I have not been available for many years to teach anyone. But here’s a short list of People who have managed to make the best of video training; several of whom were also awarded guru certification from Willem based upon their video learning. Aric Fowler, Joe Judt, Derric Haskell, Tim Nichols, Wayne Gauvin and many others that will come to mind after I post this response.
Some of these gentlemen will tell you that they have personally tested their skills against Willem’s students and have prevailed. They have also tested their skills against a wide array of fighting systems and found no par for KunTao Silat.
In light of the facts already presented and many more I could elucidate upon; I would opine that those people who say you can’t learn by video are completely chocked full of fecal waste material.
Now, I will freely admit that People are quite surprised when they feel my hand and fingers and other things ~ and there really is an epiphany attached to personal study with a KTS teacher. This is an element we are working diligently on now ~ the PracticeLeader Program and Affiliate Schools where people can get the feel as well as the intellectual knowledge. I believe that there is nothing like the synergism of video training augmented with hands-on training.
That was a great question Joseph!
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From my experience, these videos work best as an additional resource to regular coaching from a live teacher. For me, when I am watching something on the DVD, I am also reliving the experience I had in class as well. There have been several times when I got something from the video, but didn’t “Get” it in class, despite Joe practically hammering it into me.
That said, without Joe hammering it into me before hand, I never would have see it if all I had was the video alone.
I see live coaching, and video study as mutually supporting, rather than mutually exclusive.
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Bingo! That’s the ideal combination because a teacher can assign viewing assignments for their students that will augment and embellish their class experience and also provide some pre-training for the next class.
Developing this synergistic experience is on our A Priority List right now, so all you who are conducting classes or running a school who want to include KunTao Silat in your mix, now is the perfect time to leap joyfully on-board the KunTao Silat association. Your contact man will be Joe Judt.
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Another beautiful day in Eternity!
Hope you are all rested and ready for another working week, training all the way. If you haven’t seen the WorkStation WorkOut you aught to take a peek.
https://www.kuntaosilat.com/train-smart-kuntao-silats-constant-training-concept/ Constant Training is the WAY to excel in KunTao Silat!This week I will be evaluating the video tests, so I’d like to open the door to some conversation on that topic so that everyone knows how the procedure works and what the requirements are. https://www.kuntaosilat.com/forums/topic/pak-steve-will-review-video-testing-week/
Top of the morning! :-)>
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I’d like to talk about Serak.
KTS Leadership is united on removing Serak as an AKTS requirement. To a man, they believe that it is superfluous and unnecessary because Djurus Satu and the warm-up drills cover most all of value in Serak. With the Chang Style and the External/Internal it is unnecessary ~ I have been told.
So, I’m interested in what People have to say. :-)>
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It has been in there all this time, right?
Are you talking about taking it out of the system completely? or just as a Guru Muda requirement?
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No, it has never been a requirement before the introduction of American KunTao Silat. I wanted to fill the gap of the Shaolin forms with Serak but utilizing the regular KunTao Silat legwork, which I believe is far superior to Serak.
Joe tells me that is going backwards after experiencing the Chang Style and I can’t really argue the point.
But the biggest point is the baggage associated with the de Thouars Brothers. It appears that their scam has run it’s course and people in the know are not buying into it anymore. So I’m reluctant to make it a requirement, but I don’t want to completely discard it either.
So I have a conundrum; and I think I’ll just make it an option for those bent in that direction BUT not a requirement for advancement.
Serak is a beautiful art, and done well ~ very effective. It is the intrigue and bullshit built into it by the de Thouars that makes it less than appealing and I really cannot deny that fact.
How do you see it?
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Well, from what little I have seen, it appears to me that it goes much, much deeper into the study of positioning, and the angles of entry than the Chinese arts do. On the other hand, the Chinese arts go significantly deeper into the body methods, powergenration, and rooting skills. So, I don’t think eliminating it is a good idea. The two together are more than the sum of their combination.
Now, part of where I am coming from, is that I could care less about rank. Frankly, I don’t really care much about the curriculum either. For me it has always been about answering the questions I had at the moment; which made me a very frustrating student for Joe to teach, as I often ignored his lesson completely and focused in on some minute detail or intricacy for my own reasons.
So from where I sit, I would leave it in the system. Teach it, were it seems best to teach it. There are answers to questions there, that a student may not even know he has, till he sees it.
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“Well, from what little I have seen, it appears to me that it goes much, much deeper into the study of positioning, and the angles of entry than the Chinese arts do.”
That I agree with! Serak does, indeed, make a PHd study of position, angles and levers ~ but Chang Style does that instinctively with just one of Bill Chang’s statements of fact: “Make for yourself convenient Steven!” Ultimately, I have found combat to be far too chaotic for the rigid constraints of Serak and prefer the principle of maintaining control of an opponent by instinct, having been developed by decades of “play” with as many People as I could cross hands with. Barring this training exercise Randall Goodwin and I developed when we were room-mates with Pak Vic, I can see the virtue of the platform and the intricacies of Serak’s base, angle & lever philosophy. But we play instead.
“On the other hand, the Chinese arts go significantly deeper into the body methods, powergenration, and rooting skills. So, I don’t think eliminating it is a good idea.”
Well, this is why I included Serak in the AKTS program in the first place. Although it was also meant to honour Paul and Victor. With the Internal aspects of Bill Chang’s style as a base, Serak comes alive. As much as I am impressed with Pak Vic’s ability to organize an art, the “lively” aspect of Bill Chang’s teachings is ignored and many Serak fighters find themselves overwhelmed by active fighters.
“The two together are more than the sum of their combination.”
This is precisely my belief and why I put it there in the first place.“So from where I sit, I would leave it in the system. Teach it, were it seems best to teach it. There are answers to questions there, that a student may not even know he has, till he sees it.”
I tend to agree with you ~ but I’m leaning more toward making it an elective rather than a requirement. I’ll tell you why. It involves the down-side of the de Thouars Brother’s modus operandi ~ in that, for some unknown reason, all the Brothers seem to have a built-in “clear-the-deck” mentality that forces them to periodically expel their best practitioners. Since KunTao Silat does not buy into that self-destructive philosophy we attract a number of fine practitioners who have been “kicked out” of Serak, Tongkat, Bukti Negari and whatever Willem is calling his style today. Throwing all they have worked for is not necessary when we can simply add a deployment system to the super fine upper body mechanics and base, angle, lever knowledge of Serak players and supercharge their combat capabilities.
I expect some of those People to step forward at some point in time with an understanding of this synergism and be able to teach Serak as principle instead of rote mechanics. It hasn’t happened yet ~ but my faith holds.
You see, KunTao Silat is a Family, a Brotherhood ~ not a monarchy. I’m not a “master” because there is only One Master, YahSheua and we are all brothers and sisters on this plane of existence. I am your servant, to share with you what I have learned ~ not to dominate or control you.
So, I’m leaning in the direction of requiring the first Eight Djurus of Pak Vic’s Serak from the 1980s and making the rest electives ~ like so many other things. I don’t include CiMande, even though there is much benefit to be enjoyed by studying that art; and I’ve chosen not to include a huge body of forms from Willem that offer little that is not included in the very robust program that we have developed to date.
Once a practitioner compleats the Guru Certification Course or the Distance Learning Program they are at the door to a life-time of study and our video library is replete with martial acumen enough to study for the rest of their lives. So all we are really talking about here is the Levels up to Guru Muda or Practitioner. . . which is really only the beginning.
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Greetings to all (& very honored to meet you Pak Steve). My intro post can be found here: https://www.kuntaosilat.com/forums/topic/hello-from-portland-or/
I had stopped my martial arts practice due to health issues that have been recently resolving, so I’m excited to get back to it – especially with such an interesting and rare style. I have been watching some of the 10 DVD video downloads with my Guru (Brandt Bollers) for about 2 months now and practicing daily for at least 6 weeks. Having the videos has been an immense help, especially the Serak Djuru videos, as I can see the different expressions from Pak Steve and Pak Chas (& the others on the video), then work them with input from Guru Brandt and then on my own. Guru Brandt also has me working the basics of the Kilap Betawi expressions every day and incorporating the movements from the Serak Djurus into the Kilap expression (& vice versa). Guru Brandt has been very impressed with my progress so far, and I am starting to be interested in the testing requirements to move forward.
I am on a break at work at the moment. Once I get home I will lay out what I’ve been practicing. Any advice or links on moving forward would be appreciated (which sub-style – Malabar or American – I would be closest to testing for, or any other advice).
More to come later today.
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Finally got time to follow up tonight & get caught up on the thread. Thank you for the stance notes on the Malabar Set. I realize that’s the one I’ve been doing the first part of each day.
I started on the “Warm Up” set from Pak Steve’s videos and the Serak Djurus first to compliment the Kilap Betawi Djurus 1 and 2, starting with the first few sequences of each and adding more as I memorize and get comfortable with them (work them into muscle memory). Various parts of the below list were incorporated each week, and I started “easy” and worked up to the full Eagle stances, low tiger, etc. Here’s what I’m up to in my daily practice:
“Warm Up Set”
The Maiden Bathes – Stand in Maiden stance at the base of the triangle, perform the Bow with palms and elbows as tight to the body as possible (forearms relaxed), up to Monkey Brushes Eyebrows & down to the lower gate guard. Do this 9 times – one set with both hands to each point on the triangle, one with the right hand to all 3 points, one with the left hand to all 3 points.
Pretty George’s Elbow Exercises – With a short step w/ power foot each time (Maiden Bathes footwork, or a really short “tiger” stance) perform Pretty George’s Elbow Exercise Pak Chas’ style (from the Serak Djuru video) right and left. Then the “high gate” Betawi version right and left side (ending each “high gate” elbow set with the “Over There Now” bead – reach, grab, pull into forearm strike).
Knee Set – Turn 180, take short Maiden steps forward and throw 3 knees with each step: knee, ground, knee-knee, ground. Throw lead knee to lead hand for the first 2 steps, throw cross body knees for the next 2 steps. Turn 180.From there I re-center and do the Malabar warm-up set up to the Tiger Walking – left and right each 3 times, with some additions. During the turning exercises I work very close ‘maiden bathes’ wipes w/ forearm hits in all 3 gates before the mid range clearing. Also working a much higher dragon stance at first as I build the appropriate muscles up.
As a follow-up or a separate set each day I practice the Djurus. I’m up to Djuru 9 now, also practicing 3 variations of Djurus 1 & 2 and incorporating Pak Victor’s “battle djuru” short-ending every few days.
Djuru 1 Kedong (as seen in one of Pak Steve’s calsses warm-ups, with full 180 turn and re-cover)
Djuru 1 Serak (as performed by Pak Guru Chas – with a few kilap expressions ephasized)
Djuru 1 Kilap Betawi (skin-close wipe and response, ends differently)
Djuru 2 New (as performed by Pak Guru Chas – high counter & trap/break/throws)
Djuru 2 Old (as performed by Pak Guru Chas – low counter full turn/break/throws)
Djuru 2 Kilap Betawi (low counter into bamboo bends, into serak bead# 3, end with a variety of step through/throws)
I then perform 3-9, opening with as much of a synergy as I can of Serak and Betawi 1 or 2 as called for. Most days I run through 1-9 (1-6 a few weeks ago) as slowly and with as much intent as possible. Every few days I run them at speed. Sometimes I have the opportunity to work all 1-9, left and right sides twice a day. *grin*I will have to make some time to watch the video posted in the opening post this week. Thanks for any replies.
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Good morning Joshua,
It’s a pleasure to meet you. It sounds like you are very serious about your training ~ that warms my heart.It is also good that you have Guru Brandt to lead you through the maze of possibilities and direct you in where to focus your practice.
It is also good to see that you are experimenting and combining elements from the Brother & Sister arts in KunTao Silat. Pak Chas was a major player in the formation of KunTao Silat and his personal art ~ Betawi ~ is something that anyone coming back from injury or illness would be well advised to investigate.
“Pretty George” is Chas’ handle for George Morin ~ one of the finest practitioners you will find and also one of the pioneers of KunTao Silat back when it was called other names. His elbow exercise is well worth incorporating into your daily workout.
I like your daily workouts Joshua ~ it’s good to see that you have organized and analysed the components.
Are you getting to work applications with Guru Brandt? He’s a burly kind of guy, so if you can get it to work on Brandt you won’t have much problem with most people.
Keep up the fine work Joshua and please pass my fond regards to Brandt.
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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I have not seen much of the Bill Chang stuff (That I know of anyway, I don’t always know the source), but by description is sounds a lot like other things I have experienced.
I am a big fan of the Northern Chinese internal arts. It’s very natural, if that makes any sense.
Learning to feel all the lines, angles and positions gives you a much more intuitive mastery of them.
But, like I said in another post, it’s not one vs. the other. It’s the two combined that holds the magic.
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Well, that may, or may not be true. One of the things that Bill Chang told me so often I wanted to gag every time he said it was, “Steven, you have TOO many moves. . . welly confusing!”
Bear in mind that at this time I was studying with Willem every day, Living with Victor and visiting Paul a lot ~ so there was a lot of martial input I was endeavouring to assimilate.
Bill Chang said that I should blow the de Thouars completely off because they were “welly crazy Steven” and concentrate on Noble Gung Fu soas to focus my mind and develop a singularity of purpose. “Straight to the point with no let up Steven!”
Being a multi-tasking kinda’ guy, that sage advice fell on deaf ears ~ besides I had made a commitment to the Brothers to make them internationally acclaimed, and of all the things I do ~ keeping my Word has always been paramount in my life.
Looking back with 20/20 Bill Chang was correct. He would still tell me that I have too many moves, but I’ve toned it down considerably. :-)>
So the double-edge of seeking knowledge can cut both ways.
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Greeting Pak Steve,
I believe the Serak material is beneficial because it focuses on base, angle, and level. Its a different expression of the art and it seems to be part of the foundation of the concept of American Kuntao Silat. I believe if you learned it and it added value to your progress maybe just leave it in there and other people may find value as well.
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Well that was my original thought, but I always like to triple check things that become semi-permanent such as parts of a system ~ and for that I rely on the intelligent consideration of more than just myself.
I grok what Joe and Derric are saying, that it is unnecessary. . . to a point. One small part of the equation is that I indeed learned and benefited from Serak and other People may well do the same, so I agree with you on that. But does it add confusion? It might.
It keeps coming back around in my thinking that as an “elective” non-requirement it may serve both, as you say a benefit to others, and lessen confusion by those who might be confused by its inclusion in the system.
I’m still thinking . . . :-)>
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Just to clarify: My point is that Serak and KTS are fundamentally different, despite sharing common ancestors. What makes Serak good, is not a few Djurus – this is a deeply overrated idea in the USA.
While elements of Sera djurus-djurus, positioning and Langkah are present in KTS (For those that do not know me, I am very familiar with both arts, this is not a guess), the Chang style training changes this into it’s own thing. I’ve been doing both since the times in West Marin, and if you are doing KTS as Pak Steve practices, do KTS. Adding a few Djurus (that only contain movement ALREADY taught) that Pak Steve himself never really focused on isn’t really a net benefit.
Also note that the terms ‘base, angle, and leverage were never used to describe Serak technique until Stevan Plinck did so. It is an elaboration on the three arts strategy, but it is not a theory required to ‘get’ KTS. This kind of migration is normal – Lord knows I’m guilty of it too because we live in such an information rich society, but there are differences between how the different systems solve problems.
The biggest, and something really impossible to get over video, is the application of Displante. Both arts use this, and I’d wager KTS received this idea from Serak. Depending on the Serak school, there are many ways to achieve this – from hitting (pukulan) to compression, to yeilding, etc. All of these are great strategies and offer much. But the KTS has a different body skill – to create the Displante with a touch. This can be a very light movement, yet it still displaces the opponent. It can be done WITHOUT movement. This is best demonstrated in person, it sounds oogey-boogy mystical, but it is simply the result of proper training. This is achieved only through diligent study of the basics and Qigong practice in the system.
I love Serak and Bukti Negara 2.0. Those are great systems.
I also love KTS – THIS KTS. Because it is a great system that stands on it’s own. It deserves to be taught and explored as Pak Steve developed it, with minimal ‘interpretation’ until his lessons are fully inculcated. There are unique jewels of information that deserve not to be clouded by getting pulled into the past.
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Joe, you do have a way with words! You also have a great deal of experience in direct study with Pak Vic and some of his top, dismissed, practitioners.
Your study of the internal martial arts also gives you unique qualifications to express your opinions on this subject, which appear obvious with a little reflection and introspection.
I’m of the opinion that the first eight djurus of Serak can do no harm nor cause confusion as part of the American program, we being an amalgamous People. Should People want to continue study in Serak we have more for them and can certainly introduce them to some fine Serak teachers, like Mike Roberto.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and for clarifying your considered opinion! I apologize for inaccurately relating your thoughts. It’s great to have you on the KTS Team.
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Sometimes I forget that I Started with the 8 Djurus of Serak. Perk used them as a white 2 black belt program there at his United Combat Arts school in Sherwood Arkansas (along with some Korean stuff to fill the gaps).
We would perform Satu on occasion, jump around like a monkey on others; but the core was the 8 Djurus as he learned them from Chas. I have no idea what he does now, but that is how it started then.
When I moved to Atlanta and struck out own my own under Pak Steve, I relied Heavily on those crashing Djurus when live People (experienced artists at that) started responding to my online queries for bodies. If it were not for those mechanics I would never have been able to pull off those practice groups at the beginning of the LDP ~ at least not with an upper hand that is required to draw them back to the next class. As Pak has stated many times for many years, the folks who come to KTS are usually experienced; this puts a lot of pressure on the practice leader to buck up or get out of dodge.
It is possible that a few of the Serak Djurus in the beginning could help bridge this gap (as they did for me); however at my initiation I had not been introduced to the Kendang Silat Djurus, Monkey Feet, Sticking Hands, Stances – essentially all the elements from Pak’s side of the fence; these elements were not (I have no idea of the current state of) highlighted in the Betawi way of doing things (which is essentially what I was doing before the change).
I suppose the conclusion I am coming to is that I personally would not have hit the ground running without the 2 years of Betawi training, but – and -or is the elements included in Pak’s way of doing things a viable substitution for practice leaders to get a ‘leg up’ right out of the gate?
Another thought on the subject: when I started training with Perk – it was very physical. I had the hard ‘displante’ down in a short period of time, that’s just how we did it. How do we get this element into a practice leader as fast as possible from a distance? There is the real challenge. When folks come to see one of us who has been doing this for a long time, upon the first entry they ‘know’ we are doing something very cool. You can’t get that from the video – or can you?
Interesting
D
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Chas Clements had a very significant role in both the introduction of KunTao Silat and its development in early years. People who came to KunTao Silat via Chas and his students are always most welcome additions to the KTS Family. This is one of the reasons I’d like to maintain the first Eight Djurus as an integral part of the AKTS System, if not in Malabar as well.
Chas developed Betawi Muda as his personal expression of the arts and it really does focus on those principles that can be readily applied by those People not so physically gifted. You must remember that Chas had to stand his ground with some of the most physically gifted People you may ever meet.
It is also true that Pukulan was our best friend in the early days. It is certainly a wake up call for People who think they’re tough! And, of course, that was our major market in the early days.
Now that we have developed American KTS, we have a wider audience and perhaps even a more cerebral sort of People; but we are obviously maintaining our combative nature ~ we’ve simply found ways to prevent the sort of training injuries that look bad or cause People not to want to go to work after a good, hard training session. :-)>
It’s funny, but Chas has knocked more of his students out than I have. Even when you see he and I sticking hands, you can see the aggression Chas has. He is a really good model for those who suffer from various physical limitations.
He is also exceptionally erudite and eloquent. I’ve always said that Chas can explain me much better than I can explain myself. :-)> He has been a great pleasure to know over the decades.
I think we’ll keep the Eight Serak Djurus in AKTS in his honour!
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As some-one coming to the KTS arts by way of the Betawi(&Serak) basics first, this was a very enlightening viewpoint. Thanks. Any links or resources for Guru Plink’s Serak style that lays out his ‘base, angle, leverage’ concepts mentioned?
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Hey Joshua, check out my good friend Mike Roberto:
He will discuss some of those principles.
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@ Joshua.
Base, angle, leverage.
This is simply the realization that all 3 of these must be in place for a clean Serak ‘technique.’ And at least two must in place to make something happen.Your base is having your legs under you, you angle is your dominant position that separates their upper art from the lower art, leverage is the thing that takes them down. It is simply another way of looking at separating the bases.
Oddly enough, you find this exact same theory in BJJ in regards to ground work. If you look at Renzo Gracies book, you’ll find virtually the same explanation, only applied to something else.
That said, my advice with any of these arts, is pick a teacher and complete something. When you start out, it is easy to immerse yourself in the plethora of media available, all the different ‘related’ teachers. But until you learn something and get far enough down the road with a good guide, you won’t know what mistakes you are making. Now admittedly, I did train in several lines, but not always concurrently, and I was already an accomplished San Da champion, Judo competitor and Shuai Chiao coach. And even then when I was training concurrently at times, it slowed, rather than advanced my progress. Put a stake in the ground. Follow that path. See where it takes you before jumping around.
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That makes a lot of sense now that I’m getting into the applications of the basic movements. Thanks guys!
I’m grateful that I had a number of years of kali-escrima training before finding Betawi/KTS, I’m finding many parallels and alternate expressions of things already in my muscle memory. We primarily trained stick & knife then, and something clicked two weeks ago as I was working the legwork warmup – I had done 60% of the leg-work before w/ different upper movements, ha! Brandt and I have also been talking about how our style’s expression works on top of my escrima basics for stick/knife/etc applications. I think TKS will definitely be something I treasure and hone for the rest of my life.
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Muscle memory is a key Joshua, this is the reason and purpose behind the “constant training” Martial LifeStyle and a huge part of the instinctive response mechanism we expect to result from it.
We simply learn to move just exactly as the way we fight, so there is no disparity between what we envision and what our body does.
This is one of the most difficult aspects of practicing a principle driven martial art. Most People will have to completely change their way of thinking in order to embark upon the KunTao Silat Martial LifeStyle. . . but I’d wager it will be worth changing for. :-)>
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This concept actually parallels what I teach about applications in that three levels of the opponent’s body must be controlled for a technique to work properly: the feet/legs, arms/torso and head.
As Joe so perfectly said, in KunTao Silat the displante can oft be controlled with a mere finger if the legs are placed advantageously.
The displante results from the proper combination ~ and from there the final destruction is implemented upon the antagonist.
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“Pak Steve,
I didn’t think that the forum was a good place to ask this question so hopefully you don’t mind that I emailed you personally. When I was in the Atlanta area I started my training with Derric Haskell and he taught me a lot and spoke very highly of you. From watching your video uploads and reading some of your material I had a lot of questions and he felt it was best I ask you personally.
The question I have is how did your constant training in AKTS help you reach the higher levels of enlightenment in which you call “Freedom” ?”You can’t train constantly to be aware of your surroundings without eventually realizing that you are surrounded by Yah and move in the world He created for us, His People.
“How did your personal training cultivate and lead you down the path to YHVH ?”
It was actually YHVH that directed me to the arts. Some might think that my childhood was bad, in that I was the only white boy in the cotton fields and the only gringo in the melon fields and the new kid in over a hundred schools, but perhaps this was how He taught me to fight.
Then there was the fact that I spent half of my childhood in the back seat of a musician’s car instead of a home. . .but that placed me in a position to run the mountains, plains, deserts, swamps and forests all over the West and allowed me the freedom to paddle my canoes untold hundreds of miles.
Hunger and poverty allowed me to learn how to shoot, and trap and fish with the constant companionship of my dog friend.
Poverty also allowed me to learn to dig wells and storm shelters and ditches; and living with some of my rural relatives while my folks were on short gigs taught me how to stretch barbed wire and wrestle calves that needed branding, how to pitch hay, cut and chop firewood, carry buckets of water from the distant well and survive when caught out in massive snow storms unable to get back to the ranch.
It would be impossible to approximate how many wilderness miles I’ve trekked, how many trees I’ve climbed, streams I’ve swam or snow storms I’ve plowed through on foot or miles I’ve ridden on motorcycles training all the way.
People used to think that I lifted weights, but I just worked very hard as a young child. . . like People used to before the new Dark Age.
When I came to Les Kelso, my first Mu Duk Kwon teacher in Kodiak Alaska, my body was already highly trained and tuned for martial study and I’d already had hundreds of fist fights, many with multiple opponents. Sensi Les Kelso taught me the old style Tae Kwon Do, and although I only received a Yellow Belt from him, when I started fighting tournaments in college in New Mexico that education served me well. When I fought tournaments in Louisiana and Texas I was promoted rapidly through the ranks to black belt and then to heavy weight even though I only weighed 150 pounds because smaller blackbelts were getting seriously injured.
So when I came to Denver and met Willem and his brothers I already had masses of first place trophies and four years of hard style training under my belt. In Willem I saw a poor janitor with great talent and decided to get involved in gaining him the recognition in the martial world that he deserved. . . that was again YHVH leading me deep into the martial arts.
When I had my first “talk” with YHVH at six, I did not know His Name and all I asked for was wisdom. A year later I asked for big muscles, a beard and to be an explorer. I was fourteen, living out on the Colorado River near Blythe California with my dog when I asked for health, wealth and to be surrounded with beautiful women , , , which proved to be my undoing. Now I ask for nothing except for the birds and the bees to return to the Land, but I give thanks for everything . . . Constantly!
“If people stick with the program that you have developed will others come to meet their creator as well ?”
No, the program itself will not ~ but the determination to lead an honourable life in love will. The habit of constant training in all of life’s endeavours will cause People to pick up their Bible. . . and read it! Constant training will attune you to the Creation and it will tell you stories of the Creator and His Love.
“Why didn’t Willem ever find the road that you found ?”
Willem found the other road and he is quite content with it. Willem’s thoughts and desires are rooted in the dark side and after training with him over thirty years I have finally conceded the fact that he has no desire to change.
“I know I have asked many questions and I appreciate you taking the time to even read my email. AKTS is a beautiful art and highly effective but what stands out is how does one reach freedom through this art. How through this art have you been liberated from man and institutions and found the secret place of the Most High?”
I’ve read many books, Scriptures and philosophies over the years that I’ve learned a great deal from, but their most valuable contribution to me has been that I have been able to find in the Holy Bible things that the Christian faith has chosen to ignore . . . or at least not to teach. The Yogis will tell you much more about the Secret Place of the Most High, the Melchizedek Order and the Masons will tell you about it; but Christians will not. “Let go and let God” is the key to freedom and I learned it from a book called “Three Magic Words” which I’m sure Christians would consider blasphemy.
Knowing that you are upheld, nourished and protected by the Creator of the Universe, that you are actually a brother of the Messiah, gives you an “abandon” through constant training that provides the “freedom” that Bill Chang spoke of and demonstrated. It is a synergism of Faith, Constant Training, and abandon to instinct and YHVH’s control that constitutes freedom. So I would opine that missing any of those elements would preclude its attainment.
I’m going to publish this because it is an integral part of the “internal” martial arts and certainly something people ignore at their own peril. It certainly is what makes me me.
Thank you for asking! -
Serak is without a doubt embedded in Satu and other areas of AKTS – including Dua; and by marriage Langka Tiga. It is just *different.* It is this ‘different’ that makes what we do so special.
Learning the Serak djuru’s in the beginning of or mid-stride the curriculum seems…. out of place for this branch of Silat.
I agree with Joe.
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I agree that your opinion has merit, especially in light of the fact that you have been witness to many evolutions in the program over the last fifteen years.
Joe is also quite correct in that I do not constantly practice Serak, as I do Chang Style ~ but I cannot ignore the fact that my time living and training with Victor had an impact on my personal art. And I’m a bit reluctant to deny at least a minimal exposure to the People training in KunTao Silat. That said, I agree with Joe that Serak is based on an entirely different mind-set than Gartin variety KunTao Silat ~ but I’m not sure they are mutually exclusive.
The point and purpose of the original Distance Learning Program was to provide a black-belt level of understanding and competent performance of elements of both silat and kuntao so that graduates could continue study with the de Thouars Brothers. . . Bill Chang did not want students ~ he had plenty. The original Five Forms along with the training concepts I developed with Chas, Randall, Phillip, George, Chuck, John & Dave served the purpose of honing the combat skills embedded in the forms and really created a great black belt level training course for establishing a competent understanding of both kuntao and silat.
The reason I reserved the Chang System for DLP graduates is that it is not only different from the other systems, it takes longer to gain competence in ~ which is why I built the Malabar LegSet WarmUp to begin preparing practitioners for later study in my version of the Chang style.
Serak is also different from the rest in that it also takes the looooong road to competence and I think that is why People don’t think most Serak players are competent in real combat. That does not mean that Serak itself is to blame, but rather that it is considerably incompatible with the American lifestyle where we move around a lot and sticking with a teacher for 20 years is a rarity.
This was also one of the driving motivations to develop the Distance Learning Video program so that People could train where ever they are, with or without a teacher.
So, bottom-line, albeit there have been VERY strong arguments to nuke the Serak Djurus from the AKTS program. . . I’m not yet convinced that a small 8 Djurus taste of Serak is not an acceptable compromise.
I love discussing life with intelligent, knowledgeable People ~ thanks!
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Good morning GentlePeople,
I just viewed a new video that Joe and I collaborated on that resides in the Vimeo Testing Group. For a thrown together project it did not turn out too bad.The reason I wanted this up is that the Chang Style basics appear simple, but there are many layers of information built into them that must be explained for most People to understand. Joe has a talent for explanation, as you will see.
For those of you who have decided to take the American KunTao Silat way, this and the Morning WarmUp are keys. It is important to practice these elements every day, many times a day ~ depending, of course, how quickly you want to develop core internal mechanics.
If you are not yet on the Vimeo Test Group, you should be.
Let’s see what this day holds. :-)>
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A grand good day GentlePeople,
Today I’d like to discuss training through injuries.
I realize that life throws us some curve balls from time to time; but the Martial LifeStyle demands continuous training. I have had my share of injuries and continued to train. I’m interest to hear how others have done that. . . or failed to do that.
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The topic of “Learning by Video” is evergreen. Lot of People will tell you that it can’t be done, but I’m not sure that those of that persuasion do not have a vested interest in martial arts classes in their locale.
Now I’m not trying to say that learning by video is the best way to learn, but for some in this world it is the ONLY way available to them. I believe that the symbiosis of hands-on and video proves to be the best of all worlds and for experienced martial artists I believe this is the hot ticket; but how about for beginners?
I’m taking the liberty of posting an email to me by an experienced martial artist who recently joined the GCC and is moving rapidly through the course material as I’ve always felt was possible. It’s just more possible now, thanks to evolving technology, the immediate availability of video information and a focusing of the program.
Here goes, in full:
“Pak Steve Gartin,
Thank you for your kind words! And much gratitude for sharing Kuntao Silat with all of us. I was definitely one of the skeptics when it came to a video learning program, as I had the luck to grow up in a very traditional martial arts setting. But your program really is outstanding, and it is helping me grow a great deal as a martial artist. I am always grateful to men like you who are working to preserve the true martial arts–the world is going to need them again soon I am afraid.
I filmed myself early this evening practicing with my brother, and am uploading it to Vimeo as I type this. I look forward to your advice and corrections!
Many blessings,
Jonthan Pyndus”And Jonathan, you must know that you are a blessing to me ~ as are all of those who choose the KunTao Silat way. You are correct in that this knowledge is going to be very valuable one day soon as the world, as we have known it, crumbles before our eyes.
May YHVH richly bless your House and keep you safe,
Steve -
Well, there is a lot going on in KunTao Silat; and those of you who are not on the Vimeo Testing Group are missing a whole lot.
Those who know me oft decry the fact that I have such disregaurd for money; but if that is a failing, I accept full responsibility.
From now until Sunset Tomorrow, when the Sabbath begins, anyone who can get a test video up on the Testing Group has a free test.
Here’s a short shot of what happened today on the Testing Group:
“Danny, I really appreciate the brief introduction. Tells me a lot about you, your morals, your integrity and your attitude about life ~ and I have to tell you that really endears you to me. You are a man of my own spirit and I’m proud to have you in the KunTao Silat Family.Now, to rip you apart: Your advancing Tiger sucks.
The rest of it shows a great deal of practice and attention to detail and based upon your previous videos, this one compleats the entire first Level which you pass with flying colours. As soon as I can get my Mac working I’ll send you your certificate of rank.
Now you can start working on Djurus Satu.
And about the money. . . we are not in this for the money. What I would prefer is that you get a Practice Group going and share what you’ve learned with some other folks just like you.
May YHVH richly bless your House and all you endeavour to do,
Steve”
https://vimeo.com/groups/ktstestinggroup/videos/129819982 -
Pak Steve,
Sorry it took me so long to hop onto the forum to check what was going on: it’s the busy life a grad student who works part time I am afraid! And trains constantly 😉
I am honored that my simple letter has become a part of the conversation stream!
And blessings to you and your house as well!
To elaborate a little more on my view of Video Training:
Not tooting my own horn, but I’ll elaborate on my background so that when I say that the DLP and GCC have value, people will see that I have some experience to stand on.
Like yourself sir, I started in Traditional, rough and tumble Taekwondo as a boy. Unfortunately, most people these days will have no idea what that means, as TaeKwonDo has largely become a fast food martial art with lots of calories and no nutrition, but that’s a different rant…I eventually become an instructor and have worked to preserve what I was given to my teacher’s current generation of students as best I can (boy do they hate iron forearm training and knuckle pushups!).
Through my graduate program in Traditional Chinese Medicine, I’ve been able to study Shaolin Gongfu and Yang Taijiquan of the Yang Jwing Ming lineage for free (why more of my schoolmates don’t take advantage of this I will never understand), which has given me a wonderful foundation in understanding the principles of the Chinese arts! They are beautiful to behold, deep as the ocean, and deadly as a viper in the hands of a true adept. I am humbled to just be around such people.
Taekwondo and Gongfu aside, I am predominately a student of classical Japanese martial arts (i.e. traditional combat arts not post Meiji restoration sport arts) who has been blessed with the chance to train in Japan several times (and am going back later this year).
In fact, it is one of my teachers in these arts (who is among the seniors in the world in the organization), who pulled me aside a year and a half ago and began teaching me Naga Monyet Kuntao Silat, as he had learned it alongside his karate/judo/kali master during a series of seminars and classes with the De Thouars brothers in the 1970s (does this older style name mean anything to you now?) Despite eventually focusing on the Koryu Japanese arts, he has held the Indonesian teachings in equal reverence and was able to show me how both cultures teach the same principles but in a different and complementary way. All roads lead to Rome if properly traveled. Needless to say I’m hooked.That’s how I fell backwards into the distance learning program. I was looking for reference material to practice what I had been shown, and when I ordered the DVDs I realized I had been enrolled in the Guru Certification Course. I was skeptical that I could acquire real skill without a teacher constantly correcting and guiding me, but fairly quickly I saw the value of the fast forward, slow motion, and rewind that a life teacher doesn’t have 😛 Plus, this method forces the student to ponder and observe himself with ever greater attention to error.
So I’m a believer. Anyone can benefit from training in the Guru Certification program. While having a background in other martial arts definitely helps, I think it comes down to discipline and dedication. Just do the work.
We live in a world where access to information on virtually any subject is open and available. This is unprecedented in known history. So we owe it to ourselves, our ancestors, and our descendants to study, embody, preserve, and pass on the martial arts (as well as healing arts, true religion and philosophy, craftsmanship, music and art, etc) to the next generation, because someday someone’s life is going to depend upon the martial arts. As Pak Steve said, our world is crumbling before us, and people seem too wrapped up in the Kardashians to pay attention.
Anywhoo, that’s just my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth.
A couple of quick questions for Pak Steve and any of the Gurus present:
I’m focusing on Malabar, but can a student study both Malabar and American once we reach the stage where the arts diverge? I’ve been sharing the basic warm up with my mother (who is pushing 60) and she really digs hitting stuff with her elbows (she’s part Filipina-I’m convinced that’s a major part of it). But I know that the Malabar forms will probably end up being too tough on her, so I’d like to eventually jump into the Chang Style so I can still share with her and my Dad (who’s in his 60s but stills does burps, so I’m less worried about him).
On the list of stances on an earlier post: is the Turning Leopard the same as the leopard posture in Djurus Satu?
Anywhoo, thanks to anyone who read this far!
And much gratitude to Pak Steve and the Gurus for sharing their experience and knowledge!
Blessings,
Jonathan Pyndus-
A fine day to you Jonathan,
‘Twas a pleasure to review your video of Djurus Satu and the first four Serak Djurus!
I posted my review of your performance on the KunTao Silat Testing Group: https://vimeo.com/kuntaosilat/jonpyndusdjurussatu
I’m quite impressed with your performance, particularly in light of the fact that you’ve only been in the Guru Course for a month or so.
I’ll have more to say after the farm chores, but I wanted to get this video analysis up as quickly as possible for you to see before you went off to work, or school, or training . . . in which ever order they occur in your daily life.
Thanks also for elaborating on your background, how you came to KunTao Silat and why you invested in the Guru Certification Course. By the way, you earned your advancement to Level Three, so you can start working on Lankas Dua now. I doubt that I will have to nit-pick you on the same details you will have to suffer through in this review. :-)>
You’ve done a great job with your Brother’s kind assistance ~ please pass a “howdy” to him from me.
I’ll have more to say B42long.
Shalom,
Steve
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Howdy Jon,
The day got away from me. Sorry I don’t have time for a more exhaustive reply, but you brought up several cogent thoughts that I did not want to leave for later. I’ll quote you and respond so that no one will have to go back and forth to figure out what I’m responding to:“I eventually become an instructor and have worked to preserve what I was given to my teacher’s current generation of students as best I can (boy do they hate iron forearm training and knuckle pushups!).”
You are fortunate to have had knowledge of old time TKD; it is night and day from you you find now, as you so aptly stated. Wait until they start doing KTS fingertip pushups and iron shin conditioning. :-)>
I am predominately a student of classical Japanese martial arts (i.e. traditional combat arts not post Meiji restoration sport arts
Funny how all the martial arts softened up after WWII – do you see a pattern there?
“In fact, it is one of my teachers in these arts (who is among the seniors in the world in the organization), who pulled me aside a year and a half ago and began teaching me Naga Monyet Kuntao Silat, as he had learned it alongside his karate/judo/kali master during a series of seminars and classes with the De Thouars brothers in the 1970s (does this older style name mean anything to you now?)”
It would have to have been the late seventies because we did not use the term “KunTao Silat” until 1978-1979. Snake Monkey had to be Willem because Paul and Victor only used the term Serak to define their arts up until Paul designed Bukti Negara and Victor Tongkat and that was sometime in the 1980s. Strange though, Willem wasn’t doing seminars with anyone but the Kempo guys before I started booking seminars for him. The only time all the Brothers were together was at Dan Inosanto’s school in the very early 1980’s ~ I have some pictures and video somewhere.
“I’m focusing on Malabar, but can a student study both Malabar and American once we reach the stage where the arts diverge? I’ve been sharing the basic warm up with my mother (who is pushing 60) and she really digs hitting stuff with her elbows (she’s part Filipina-I’m convinced that’s a major part of it). But I know that the Malabar forms will probably end up being too tough on her, so I’d like to eventually jump into the Chang Style so I can still share with her and my Dad (who’s in his 60s but stills does burps, so I’m less worried about him).”
Yes, you can progress through both arts simultaneously; and with your background in the real Chinese arts you will find a lot of commonality. Kuntao is just, like you say, ruthless ~ but the motions, postures and modality is much the same.
You must be very proud of your parents to be lively and vibrant when most of our generation is couch or bed-bound and on all manour of government drugs.
“On the list of stances on an earlier post: is the Turning Leopard the same as the leopard posture in Djurus Satu?”
Yes it is.
Have a blessed and restful evening,
Steve -
Pak Gartin,
Thank you for your thorough and insightful reply! And much gratitude for the promotion. I am humbled by your compliments! I really wasn’t planning to try testing until August!
Please nit pick away! I want to get better, and it is double important to have the details drilled in when the master isn’t immediately present!
The martial arts as a whole have truly become watered down here in the west…and from what I have seen and heard in much of the East as well. This is a point I always try to share, albeit gently, with my friends who do not study more “rigorous” systems like Kuntao Silat or Koryu Bujutsu. I realized fairly young that there is a whole world out there beyond what you see at the strip mall, and I have endeavored since to try to follow the Old Ways as best I can!
As to my Sensei’s exposure to Silat, all I know is that it was late 70s, perhaps early 80s. Evidently, at least one of these seminars was a summit or gathering where teachers like Jhoon Rhee and Remy Presas were all present, sharing their respective arts. Perhaps it was a kempo seminar of some sort: I know that Sensei’s teacher, a man named Dr. Lonnie Green, was always cross training with men like Bong Soo Han of Hapkido and Nakayama of Shotokan, so it isn’t unreasonable that he would have also gone to Kempo seminars.When I see Sensei next week I will inquire further.
I am very lucky to have parents who are still in good health and are motivated to stay that way. If only more people realized that life should not merely be a mindless shambling from one entertainment to the next.
I hope yours is a relaxing weekend! Enjoy all that summer Yang qi!
Blessings and regards,
Jonathan Pyndus -
Well my Friends, it has been a most enjoyable week conversing with you all.
I can’t really apologize for having spent Seven years in the Cave of Adullum, because it was the right thing to do ~ but I have very much missed the companionship I find amongst you.
This is the Grand Shemitah, what Christians call the Year of the Jubilee ~ although most Christian sects do not teach much about the significance of the Jubilee. This is the year when all that has been taken away from the Children of YHVH will be returned; and in some cases double as in the case of Job.
My eternal battle against the Lucifarians is not yet over, but the signs point to it all ending soon. Meanwhile, I plan to be much more available to my KunTao Silat Family ~ so you can probably expect to hear a great deal more from me as this Jubilee Year unfolds.
May the Creator hold each one of you close and protect you from the Great Tribulation that has come upon our Earth and may we all grow closer to Him and know that our salvation is near.
Shalom,
Steve -
On the subject of PracticeLeaders, I post this email exchange:
Good day Jonathan,
I appreciate the positive feedback. The program is finally approaching completion and it’s a good time to be involved, now that all the basic information is readily available in video format. Being able to comment on test videos will certainly yield huge results for those humble and interested enough to digest the information. And now that the KTS Forum can include video, we can isolate and answer questions with timecode precision.The PracticeLeader must be able to lead the Malabar Class WarmUp, Monkey Foot and Sticking Hand drills as the basics of a KTS Class. Technique practice is added as the PracticeLeader progresses in skill and the practice group starts developing a sense of Zero Range combat strategy. You’ll notice that a KTS player never leaves an attacker standing! It’s a good practice to begin with. . . besides it is actually quite aerobic to keep getting up after being repeatedly thrown down and lightly pummeled.
Here’s the basics for conducting a PracticeGroup:
Naturally that is just the basics as classes are designed to be a lot of fun in addition to the martial experience. You have an Inner Circle membership, so you have access to the basic technical applications. Add one easily learned technique to a class and you have the components of a meaningful class experience where your practice partners walk away feeling well-exercised, with actual combat technology that may well help them to avert danger one day.
You have the makings of a class ~ so make it so. Please post the particulars on the KTS Forum and on the PracticeLeader site at: http://www.kuntaosilat.us where you can have your own page if you’d like.
The PracticeLeader Program is my prime focus right now, so anything you want to know we can get figured out quickly.
Have a joyful vacation,
Steve—–Original Message—–
From: jon@kuntaosilat.com [mailto:jon@kuntaosilat.com]
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2015 8:50 AM
To: Pak Steve
Cc: elijah@kuntaosilat.com; joe@kuntaosilat.com; ‘Sigung Aric Fowler’; ‘Wayne Gauvin’; derric@kuntaosilat.com
Subject: Re: Level ThreeSalutations Pak Steve!
I figured at such! I really appreciate all the corrections and extra information you gave me. I have been working on it a lot! I think for me the missing piece was understanding the strategy of always moving in in response to attack, rather than withdrawing and re-aligning (which is a Japanese sword fighting tactic).
Ironically, I was going to ask about what the protocol for starting a study group is. I have a couple of friends who are all interested in trying out this crazy stuff I have been doing. I have been experimenting on my brother and our Tae Kwon Do friends, letting them attack me however and defending using Kuntao Silat movements, and it has really helped.
I’m very much looking forward to talking with you more this weekend!
I will be out of town until Sunday afternoon, hanging out on the Gulf Coast with no Internet, but I plan to film my Langkas Dua so that I can get some more corrections before I try to test later this year.In regards to locks, I have noticed that the applications for the Shaolin Kuntao forms feature more Chin na and trapping, whereas with the Kendang Forms, the opponent is dissected alive with elbows, knees, palms, fingers, and fists, and if they happen to fall into an elbow, neck, or shoulder break against your Horse stance, it’s bonus. Should I approach silat applications with these general principles in mind?
As always, many blessings and gratitude!
Jonathan PyndusQuoting Pak Steve
> Good day Jonathan,
> Congratulations! Very nicely done video performances for both tests!
> And yes, I move my head out of the way of the in-coming and you should too.
>
> I’d like to encourage you to get a Practice Group going. You need to
> be able to test and apply principles with real people in order to get
> the feel for KunTao Silat. Sticking Hands, Monkey Feet and Technical
> Play are key to understanding KunTao Silat principles.
>
> I’ll be on-line for the weekend, so if questions arise sock ’em to me.
> :-)> Steve -
Wow! I can’t believe that there aren’t any questions!
Here’s a few:
What made you decide to make Kendang Silat the primary Silat base for Kuntao Silat?
Do we know which systems of Bagua, Taiji, and HsingI that our Indonesian lineage was derived from? (Yang, Chen, Gao, etc?)
In Kuntao Silat, where is the gaze directed?
Blessings!
Jonathan-
Guess everybody knows everything. :-)>
Kendang is the most combat oriented silat art I’m aware of.
Li Po Chang was a Tibetan Monk whose lineage was a mystery, so the arts he taught took on his name, Po Qua Zen, I Shing Po, Tai Keah Po ~ Po Style.
The gaze is directly into the opponent’s eyes, although the wide eyes take in the terrain as well.
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Wow, it must be nice to already know it all lol
Thanks for the answers! I didn’t realize that a Tibetan teacher was in the lineage. Most excellent!
I have really been enjoying the Kendang forms…they seem short and simple but there is a LOT going on inside each one.
Pak Steve, I noticed that most of the videos that show you using wrist or elbow locks to throw people tend to be Kuntao rather than Silat. When practicing Kendang Silat, should I look for openings for locks as I enter, or wait until the person is down and then break them against my horse/tiger stance?
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Yes Jonathan, there are many layers of information contained in the forms ~ so you continue to have deeper revelations as you continue to practice the forms over the years.
Hitting, kicking and clanging shins and elbows usually works best for the entries because a lock ties you up too. The more you hit during your entry, the more effective the entry becomes. While the opponent is falling is the prime time to prepare for something to break as they land on the ground. This requires a lot of control when you are practicing so that no serious damage is done to your training partners.
We don’t use much compliance technology simply because it is easier and more efficient to just break it so it can’t be used against you.
Although locks and joint manipulation may be of some value in the End-game, they can be a major disadvantage in the opening game and counter-productive to the KunTao Silat methods of entry and control.
When you see a lock, look at where you might have a few good punches and a beset or sapu that would be even easier and more options might be available for follow up. KTS looks more for destruction than control. :-)>
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Sounds good to me! I definitely like the no-nonsense approach.
I always find it fascinating how the different cultures and their martial arts approach similar ideas. For example: Shaolin Kung Fu likes to use locks to control or immobilize, whereas old style Japanese arts throw the person into the lock so that they break as they fall and are crippled, modern sport arts focus on compliance or “submission” etc.I managed to get a video of my current progress on Langkas Dua up on Vimeo. It is still pretty rough, but I am really enjoying that form and looking forward to any advice you can give me!
The audio on the video isn’t the best because of how windy it was on the coast, so I apologize! -
Hello everyone, I am new in the forum replies. My name is Duane Harper. I have been studying martial arts since I was 9 (maybe under 🙂 ). Commercially since my late teens. The styles I practiced are Shotkan, Aikido, JKD,Kali, Wun Hop Kuen Do, etc. I been with the distance learning program at the beginning of this year. I have peruse through the level one information. I just recently sunk my teeth into it due to time constraint. I told Art I will have do a video testing a couple of months ago, yet was not able to do it. Now I have more time center and focus myself with the program.
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Welcome to the forum Duane. 🙂
I’ma also new to the Kuntao family, having gotten the 10 Video set a few months ago. Striving to practice every day (though it has been rough here in Oregon due to the forest fire smog). Still, I think this has been an eye opening experience for me as a martial artist.
Nice to meet you.
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I’ve gone back and forth about this issue for years. Serak is a great martial art, and for some people it is ideal.
Malabar KTS is based upon the teachings of Willem de Thouars, so it would seem most appropriate to include Serak somewhere in Malabar. Paul & Victor de Thouars claim that Serak is completely Indonesian with no influence from kuntao, so the one form in the Malabar program that is uniquely silat is Lankas Dua. Adding the Eighteen djurus at Level Three might benefit the practitioner with additional tools, compatible in attitude and complementary in application.
So, for the time being the 18 Djurus and a lot of information on Serak will be available, especially to the Inner Circle Members, and it can certainly be presented for test evaluation in either Malabar or American KTS . . . but it is not required, yet, in either.
There has been a lot of changes in the program over the decades and some out-dated information still remains on line, so as we endeavour to rectify that situation we will keep current information on the programs here on the KTS Forum. Perhaps I’ll start a new topic on the subject.
Happy training,
Steve
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